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Yes to Scottish independence!
Yes to Scottish independence!
The Scottish National Party is launching its campaign for a yes vote for independence. This is a very early start to campaigning considering the referendum itself is not likely to happen until the autumn of 2014, so two years away. The unionist campaign is likely to start later this year.
It is not yet decided what the Scots will be voting on, will it just be a simple yes or no vote on independence; in which case there is a good chance of a no vote as the polls have consistently shown that Scots don’t want full independence. Or will it include a third option; so called devo-max? It is perhaps due to the current losing position on independence that the SNP feels it needs to get campaigning early to have time to convince the public.
The SNP and the yes camp do have some advantages; they have done reasonably well in government having managed a term as a minority government and succeeded in increasing their vote despite incumbency. They are now in government with a majority so have been able to demonstrate that they can be an effective government. If Scotland’s government is considered effective then should it not have more powers or even independence? It certainly strengthens the SNP case.
Debatabase Debate: This House supports Scottish independence http://idebate.org/debatabase/debates/constitutional-governance/house-supports-scottish-independence
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-scotland-politics-18162832
1 year 3 weeks ago
NO NO NO NO NO!!!! I VOTE NO! ;)
1 year 3 weeks ago
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care to enlighten us as to your reasons? Was my argument persuasive!? I should note that there will be a lot of people who wont be eligable to vote. What about all the scots who live in England? (who would probably prefer to remain in the UK) or those in the US and Canada (probably more of them prefer independence). Indeed what about the rest of the UK, the break up will affect them almost as much.
1 year 3 weeks ago
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Why would you want to deny someones right? It is their right as a human-being to choose what is best for them, the volume of supporters of the PRO-independence is only proof that it is what the people wants. I vote yes!
18 weeks 7 hours ago
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Scotland should be independent if it wants to be. It is wrong to keep a people part of a country which they dont want to have ties to. Scotland is undisputably a nation with its own culture and identity so should be allowed independence.
1 year 3 weeks ago
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Given that just a third of people want independence it would seem that that the nationalists have a mountain to climb. However keeping a weather eye on the debate it appears to be the other way around. Every time I see the SNP debate against the unionists i think they win hands down. It seems like a vote for independence is a vote for anything; monarchy, vote for independence then choose if you want it; NATO, vote for independence then choose etc
A vote for independence is a vote for voting and who if they are voting at all is against that?
The Union is painted into an anti democratic corner and its a very uncomfortable place to be because its true, the UK is very undemocratic. Unelected head of State, Unelected house of Lords and an Unelected government in the Commons, and even if you consider the current government elected it is not in Scotland, between them the coalition got 878,000 votes Labour got 1,035,000.
1 year 3 weeks ago
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Independence would not necessarily be more democratic:
1, one of the big ideas is to keep the queen... Salmond can hardly say that is any more democratic
2, the Scottish parliament only has one chamber so has no second breaking chamber at all... how is that more democratic than HoL?
3, if there is the possibility that foreign and defence policy might be decided by the UK then surely that is even less democratic than now; at least the scots currently have a say in westminster. Your comment on voting numbers would apply equally to wales or the north of England to say nothing of Northern Ireland where then lib dems and Cons have no representation at all due to there being a totally different party system!
I also seem to remember that the SNP ruled happily enough with a minority government so it does not seem likely that they are going to demand a system where a party has to have more than 50% of votes/seats.
1 year 3 weeks ago
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- Britishness is dying. Scotland has its own parliament, its own laws and legal system. National feeling and self-confidence are high. It is time to take the next step.
- Semi-independence is unsatisfactory. Fiscal powers and economic control remain at Westminster. Independence will allow Scotland to cut business taxes (like Ireland) to promote economic growth.
- Other small countries like Norway and the Republic of Ireland are more successful and more dynamic. An independent Scotland will have the tools to match them.
- Independence would give Scotland clout where it matters: a seat at the UN and in the EU Council of Ministers. Scottish interests, eg. fisheries and agriculture, are poorly served in Brussels by UK ministers.
- Relations between Scots and English are deteriorating. Independence would free Scotland from dependency and England from resentment. An amicable no-faults divorce is better than a bickering marriage.
39 weeks 6 hours ago
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- Britishness is dying. ...
The Olympics seemed to argue otherwise; no unionists argue that you cannot have a vibrant Scottish identity as well as a british one and a European one.
- Semi-independence is unsatisfactory. Fiscal powers and economic control remain at Westminster. Independence will allow Scotland to cut business taxes (like Ireland) to promote economic growth.
- Other small countries like Norway and the Republic of Ireland are more successful and more dynamic. An independent Scotland will have the tools to match them.
Semi-independence ie Devo-Max in the lingo would give all fiscal powers to Scotland btw.
Didn't you get the memo; Ireland is no longer comparator of choice! I'll let you have Norway ...
- Independence would give Scotland clout where it matters: a seat at the UN and in the EU Council of Ministers. Scottish interests, eg. fisheries and agriculture, are poorly served in Brussels by UK ministers.
oh wait, you want to both remain in the EU and control fisheries, I wont let you have the Norway comparason then!
- Relations between Scots and English are deteriorating. Independence would free Scotland from dependency and England from resentment. An amicable no-faults divorce is better than a bickering marriage.
Perhaps relations would not be deteriorating if the Nats stopped stirring the pot? An amicable no faults divorce with a vast national debt and vital national assets to divide are you kidding?
39 weeks 5 hours ago
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I'll also add that the British Social Attitudes survey which was released on monday showed 32% support for Independence.
Proffessor John Curtice (Strathclyde University) said "This survey suggests that over the long run, there is no trend in one direction or the other. Support has tended to oscillate between around a quarter and a third in this survey. The most recent reading at 32% is to the higher end of the range."
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-scotland-politics-19622617
http://bsa-29.natcen.ac.uk/read-the-report/scottish-independence/introdu...
39 weeks 5 hours ago
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That rather implies that the SNP is right to hold the referendum now but it still wont be enough. If support does not tend to go over a third then they have their work cut out to sell it to the Scottish people over the next couple of years... or of course Cameron may outrage the scots enough that he pushes them into the arms of the nationalists.
Presumably however while support has oscillated in the past there has never been a sustained period of campaigning on the issue so this may reflect the issue coming on and off the agenda. If this is the case then we are in new territory. Equally there has never been a big chance of independence happening in the past so as the referendum gets closer it will be interesting to see what happens as people actually think about whether independence is what they want or not.
38 weeks 5 days ago
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Maybe not sustained campaigning but hardly a week has gone by without independence being in the news since the SNP formed their first government. Indeed I wonder if the way it colours all news has been detrimental to the cause of winning people over to independence, that is to say that i would have expected the Tory government to have pushed independence support up considerably given the Scots peoples visceral hatred of the Conservatives. I suspect rather unfairly that whether Labour looks likely to win in 2015 will make a significant difference to the referendum.
I dont think I would hold a referendum if polls consistantly showed c.30% support, to gain 20% is huge given the tendency for referenda to be conservative, they basically gamble on the unionists campain being truly awful, however given who the unionists have I guess that is a pretty safe bet.
38 weeks 5 days ago
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Well, now that Cameron and Salmond agreed on the referendum's terms, we know that Devo-Max won't be an option on the ballot. So it's all or nothing. How does that affect your views?
35 weeks 2 days ago
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Well as Gordon Brewer pointed out on Newsnight there were enough Satillite Trucks to report on a small war but only 13 members of the public came to St. Andrews house to see what the fuss was about, no one is interested!
It doesnt really mean much for my views. I would have voted yes for Devo max if the option was there but I would always vote no to independence. As Prof. John Curtice said yesterday the electorate already have strongly held views, the question now is which way do the people who in polls have supported Devo max but not independence jump, does losing the Devo max option make them more pro independence, or do they now fall back on a no vote without worrying about it.
Obviously I think that to avoid the possibility of Devo-max people jumping to the independence camp the Unionists should move promptly to set out a joint plan on what powers they will further devolve after 2014. Since Ruth Davidson, Conservative leader up here, last night was trumpeting the additional powers that are already on the way under the Scotland Act, I fear that the Unionists divisions on this may be an Achilles heel.
On the other hand Davidson did say that the Scotland Act did mean further powers could be devolved without primary legislation, which implies she is open to it, and also implies no need to win over the English tories to do it. If the Scottish conservatives get on board then that wagon is rolling because as Labour never cease to tell us devolution is thir baby and the Lib Dems are in favour of Home Rule, possibly even full federalism for all the UK.
35 weeks 1 day ago
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The Scottish National Party is striving hard to get a yes for for independence. Scottish people are fighting for independence for centuries. buy instagram followers
26 weeks 2 days ago
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There is now an agreement on the referendum for Scottish independence. It will have a single yes/no question. This rules out a vote for devo-max which is mentioned a bit in this thread - although there have for a while been hints that some kind of devo-max may become possible if Scotland votes against independence hints that will probably become stronger if independence looks to be winning! Instead it is a simple in/out question.
Some other things have been agreed as well; Salmond (the leader of the Scottish nationalists) has got the 16/17 year olds vote that he wanted. It was agreed that the electoral commission would have a role in overseeing the election and would review the question that the Scottish Parliament decides on so we dont yet know the actual question. It also agreed on rules on more minor things like campaign finance and media impartiality.
The BBC provides a useful timeline of when things will happen from now
October 2012
- Prime Minister David Cameron and First Minister Alex Salmond sign the referendum agreement
- A Section 30 order transferring the rights to hold a referendum to Holyrood
- The findings of the Scottish government's Your Scotland, Your Referendum consultation will be published
Autumn/winter 2012
- Electoral Commission begins the practical preparations, including testing the fairness and clarity of the question
February 2013
- The Section 30 Order will be agreed by the Privy Council
Spring 2013
- The Referendum Bill comes before Holyrood
October 2013
- MSPs take part in the crucial Stage 3 vote at the Scottish Parliament
November 2013
- Royal Assent is given to the bill
- The Scottish government will publish a White Paper - what it calls its "prospectus for independence". Other parties will also put forward their vision for the future of Scotland
Summer 2014
- The pro-independence and anti-independence campaigns intensify
Autumn 2014
- The Scottish independence referendum takes place
35 weeks 2 days ago
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Yes! If the scottish people want to be independent, they should have all our support to do so! Culture and religion shape how people are, not borders! It is understandable for a Eurocrat perspective we don't want more countries to steel their nationality and soveirgnty of.
We should support any act of people's own culture, culture is beautifull. The question we have to ask ourself when debating this topic is, do the people support this? Not do we allow scotland to become independent? Do the people want to become independent?
But back about the culture. We try to frame nations into their borders as the are now, revolutions and independance wars are something of the past. Or are they? Honestly i don't think so, cultures, politics and countries are still on the move. If we support further European integration, we can and should also support independance dreams of people. There is nothing as beautifull as people living their culture and experiencing this togheter. If this also includes independance, so be it.
Go Salmon, Yes to independance and God save the queen!
35 weeks 1 day ago
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Sometimes, a state wishing to achieve independence from a dominating power will issue a declaration of independence; the earliest surviving example is Scotland's Declaration of Arbroath in 1320, with the most recent example being Azawad's declaration of independence in 2012. Declaring independence and attaining it however, are quite different.
32 weeks 5 days ago
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the earliest surviving example is Scotland's Declaration of Arbroath in 1320... Declaring independence and attaining it however, are quite different.
As shown by this thread being about whether Scotland should declare independence again! However today the trend does seem to be very much for more states rather than less. In other words if Scotland does become independent we can expect it to survive for quite a while.
32 weeks 4 days ago
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No to independence! Yes to devo-max!
I see very little point in scottish independence over the devo-max option to be honest. It would give all the powers that matter to the man on the street (basically tax and spend) while keeping the stability of remaining within the United Kingdom. Staying within the UK also helps give Scotland a saftey net; could scotland really have bailed out the Royal Bank of Scotland and Halifax Bank of Scotland without the help of the rest of the UK? No. It would be in exactly the same situation as Ireland was with the banks pulling down the government and bailouts from Europe required.
Speaking of Europe... what difference would it make to be independent but beholden to Brussels rather than Westminster?