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This House would ban the wearing of religious symbols in the public sphere.

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This House would ban the wearing of religious symbols in the public sphere.

Yee Kok Hui's picture
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A Debate that ahs Been argued Over and Over.

51 weeks 4 days ago
booji's picture
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That however does not mean that everyone will know the context. I thought I should steal from the debatabase debate 'This House would ban religious symbols in public buildings' to provide the introduction

debatabase wrote:
The topic of tolerance towards religious symbols has caused much controversy among many both in the Western and Eastern hemispheres. Religious symbols are incorporated into every religion and are expressions of both faith and devotion. Examples of religious symbols include the Christian, particularly Catholic, Crucifix, the Muslim Hijab and the Sikh Kirpan. For many people, particularly from the West, the Hijab or Muslim head covering symbolises the repressive and extremely regressive character of Islam. However, for its supporters, it represents the defence of women's modesty against the assault of modern society. In this way, religious symbols and their meanings and consequences differ depending on cultural perception. Recent controversy has arisen around France's plan to ban the Hijab, along with other visible religious symbols, in schools. France's secular constitution provides the grounds for excluding religion from their schools. However it is not just western countries who have taken this approach. Turkey has for many years suppressed the Hijab in schools, public buildings and among employees of the state. In the aftermath of 9/11, many minority Muslim communities in western countries view attacks on the Hijab as part of a wider attack on Islam conducted in tandem with the 'War on Terror'. In a similar way, there is anxiety as to the freedom to bring Sikh Kirpans' to school because they are ceremonial daggers. It should be noted that the Sikh religion requires the Kirpan to carried with the Sikh at all times. In this way, the practice of the religion is seen to be restricted and can, therefore, be possibly considered as discrimination. However, there are other forms of religious symbolism that are not necessarily a requirement of the religion and are merely an expression of faith. There was recent controversy over a British woman who lost her job simply because she continued wearing a Crucifix after she was told not to by her employers. All of these points present an interesting question. Should authorities be more lenient on religious symbols that are a requirement of the person? Also, should there be a limit to physical or material expressions of faith?

Everyone agree with that as context/introduction to the topic or were you thinking of something different?

51 weeks 4 days ago
Yee Kok Hui's picture
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But you see, there may be two types of religion that may cause a commotion in the oublic. E.g, The christian decied to wear the cross and go out in a group, the people who worships the satan decided to wear the cross in a funny way as to worhip the satan, if this two groups were to saw each other, won't it cause a commotion? Why not ban it and then people won't offend each other if a symbol is offensive to each and other regligions. Plus, many symbols have serpents and are hideous, will we want people wearing these kind of symbols to go out and terrorize chidrens and the public? 

51 weeks 3 days ago
Alastair Stevens's picture
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Neither of those are good reasons to reduce an individual's liberty and freedom.

In the first both the Christians and the Satan worshipers have the right to wear their cross. They also have the right to be offended by the other group but that does not give them the right to infringe on the other group's right to wear their symbol. Will it cause a commotion? maybe but that is only because those people do not understand that the same right that gives them the freedom to practice their religion and wear their cross has to be given to everyone or it is meaningless.

What one person considered hideous another might consider art. Is the possibility that a child might not like something really an argument for preventing someone's freedom of expression? Come on! Besides most children are fascinated by hideous things and like a good scare!

51 weeks 3 days ago
KateDebate's picture
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We need to find a way to satisfy both groups. Perhaps everyone should be able to wear religious symbols but have to have them covered up? This would allow for the individual freedom Alastair Stevens wants while also not frightening little children or offending other religious groups as Yee Kok Hui worries.

51 weeks 3 days ago
Rory's picture
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I can understand the train of thought that led to that sort of reaction to wearing religious symbols in public, but isn't it mostly a commercially-enhanced stereotype that would invoke that sort of phobia? Isn't it rather reminiscent of how at one point, black people weren't allowed to use the same public facilites as white people, or have different seating areas on public transportations to 'control the unnecessary commotion that would be caused by them'?

It is within every person's personal right to freely express themselves within the constraints of modern society as long as it doesn't actively harm another person, but banning a form of self-expression on the grounds that it causes discomfort and may lead to commotion is outrageously pro-neanderthals.

A commotion would be caused if the person at hand is faced with someone who's used to forcing their beliefs unto others, so encouraging that kind of behaviour would serve an indirect blow to the basis of democracy, not to mention favour the aggressor's comfort zone over the victim's mere sense of moral obligation towards their respective religions, supporting anarchy and treating adversity as an anomaly rather than embracing it within the multicultural helix of the modern world.

Banning religious symbols in public in mere effort to avoid what could be naturally avoided with basic anger management skills required of the standard civilised individual who lives in a democratic environment supports that individual's regression into the pre-civilised unreigned phase of reactive tendencies, so it could be argued that by banning a certain form of expression with no basis whatsoever in logic but rather an emotional safety-net, you're supporting anarchy by sending out the wrong signals that whatever causes general discomfort could be banned even if it's certified by the person's constitutional rights.

More would be lost than gained by that endeavor in terms of the societal rules and norms. It would serve a much better purpose if the majority are taught about those religions and given the basic knowledge that would help maintain the differences within normal, socially-acceptable levels that warrant coexistence rather than judge a minority on the basis of the majority's fear of the unknown caused by their own ignorance to any other belief other than their familiar own. Warranting that kind of phobic reaction with a ban is a guilt-free card back to the dark ages.

45 weeks 18 hours ago
KateDebate's picture
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Rory wrote:

Isn't it rather reminiscent of how at one point, black people weren't allowed to use the same public facilites as white people, or have different seating areas on public transportations to 'control the unnecessary commotion that would be caused by them'?

I think this comparison goes too far; people have a choice over their religion, they dont over their ethnicity or colour of their skin. Moreover very few religions actually requre their adherents to wear all these symbols whereas people have little choice but to show their skin colour.

Rory wrote:

It is within every person's personal right to freely express themselves within the constraints of modern society as long as it doesn't actively harm another person?

Is that not those who advocate the ban's point; that it should be up to the society to define its own constraints. If society is secular and consideres outward display of religious symbols as harmful to its identity and offensive to it should they not be able to decide to ban it?

44 weeks 3 days ago
Rory's picture
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It may come off as a surprise to you but in most middle eastern countries, changing one's religion almost always leads to murder. It's not talked about or publicised, but being middle eastern and seeing it as part of my daily life, people actually get killed if they so 'choose', hence it is not really a choice, giving the aforementioned comparison ground.

You also said that if the society is secular and considers outward display of religious symbols as harmful to its identity and offensive to it then they have the right to ban it, isn't that reminiscent of another scenario where the roles are reversed? In Saudi Arabia, a woman driving is whipped, and any woman not conforming to the dress code of a habit 'abaya' may face death by stoning, legally. How is it, when it's put in this light, it's considered an outrageous violation to human rights and when it's the other way around, it's not? It's the same idea, constraining a person's right to free expression so it wouldn't cause commotion, when the only reason commotion is caused is because the helix is defiled. It's like treating the symptoms, and not the disease, only you're going so far as to amputate the organ to remove the symptoms as well.

43 weeks 5 days ago
booji's picture
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Rory wrote:

It may come off as a surprise to you but in most middle eastern countries, changing one's religion almost always leads to murder. It's not talked about or publicised, but being middle eastern and seeing it as part of my daily life, people actually get killed if they so 'choose', hence it is not really a choice, giving the aforementioned comparison ground.

Might I point out that in those same countries there is no debate about banning religious symbols. The context of the discussion is therefore in western, or at least secular (it is a debate in Turkey - you may or may not consider Turkey to be western), societies. Countries like Saudi Arabia and Iran therefore seem irrelevant to this debate. Yes they dont give citizens a choice about their religion but that same unwillingness to give a choice would seem to make the whole discussion on religious symbols pointless - ther would just be no discussion because the possibility of the state banning religious symbols from government property would not occur. That is unless you want to change the discussion to whether the state should ban religious symbols except for the state's religion's symbol - ill bet that happens - but it would be a pretty hypocritical debate (and probably one sided, no one is likely to stand up on these kind of forums for religious oppression).

43 weeks 5 days ago
Barvelou Brent's picture
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This is rather surprising. It's a bit interesting to follow too. There are many religions out there that wear their religious symbols even when only going out with friends. 

 

27 weeks 4 days ago
Chinagadget Chinagadget's picture
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24 weeks 2 days ago
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